> I can remember waking up after a vivid dream and thinking, I haven't thought
> about that person for a long time. Within the next week, I saw their obit
> in the newspaper. I should have written the dream down and then watched to
> see if it was the day of their death.
> My husbands grandmother two weeks before she died heard her husband and best
> friend talking. She asked me if it meant anything, and at the time I hadn't
> had enough experience to know.
> My father-in-law told me he was going to get out of the nursing home in two
> weeks. He died to the day, two weeks later. He told my husband he had been
> talking with a couple of his boyhood friends, who had been dead since WWII.
> When I confronted a nurse at the nursing home about this, she stated that
> this kind of thing happened all the time.
> There is a tomb stone in England that reads something like this:
> *It won't be long until you come the way I've gone.*
> To which someone has scribbled underneath:
> *Not until I know which way you went.*
Ok, now take those events and compare them to similar situations that
didn't pan out. For example:
When you dreamed of an old friend and then you didn't read about their
obit.
Or you read about an old friend's obit but didn't dream about them.
Unfortunately these common occurances probably don't stick out in your
mind, so you don't remember them.
Statistically, coincidences WILL happen. Given the fact that you will
generally remember weird coincidences over common occurances leads to
the impression that they are somehow special. They aren't out of the
norm, they are part of the fringes of the bell curve that make up the
norm.
> On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 8:11 AM, Bob Crowley <bobcrow...@acenet.net.au>wrote:
> > Well, the night my father died, I did have a visit from him. The only
> > trouble was that he died several miles away. I felt something like
> > someone shaking my back, rolled over and got the surprise of my life
> > when he appeared in the corner of the room. I say nothing else but
> > him. He started with an apology and the whole episode ended when he
> > gave this terrifying scream and disappeared. That was very nearly 30
> > years ago, and I still remember the scream even today.
> > Four days later my uncle turned up to tell me he had died. I still
> > remember standing there when the penny dropped, counting back the days
> > and thinking "What the hell was that the other night?' Moreover from
> > time to time I meet other people who have had uncanny experiences.
> > Some months ago I met a bloke who'd had an NDE, being technically dead
> > for 10 minutes. He remembered he could hear the doctor's voices,
> > "Better get the register." Then his body shook and he heard, "Hang
> > on, he just shook, better try again!" He said "You should have the
> > looks on the doctors' faces when they came to visit me later!" He
> > also experienced the white light so common to NDE's.
> > I think you atheists are in for the shock of your lives the day you
> > die. You're going to find out just how wrong you are.
> > On Aug 31, 1:36 am, skeptic griggsy <lambert...@hughes.net> wrote:
> > > All religious experiences,including NBE's, and OBE'S are just
> > > manifestations of ones own mentality.Dr..Persinger and another
> > > investigator ever show that. Naturalists can have such experiences but
> > > realize that those have no divine input. Ones cultural conditioning
> > > influences the contents such that Christians see Christian symbols,
> > > etc.
> > > One begs the question of Heaven anyway!
> > > Oh, the problem of Heaven [ ' Arguments for God ' ] is a grave
> > > challenge to theistic theodicy.
> > > And Daniel and Revelations are just dreams, with aboslutely no
> > > relation with reality.
> > > Logic is the bane of theists; theists beg questions. Fr. Griggs rests
> > > in his Socratic ignorance and humble naturalism. He might be wrong! He
> > > is a fallibilist.
> > > On Aug 26, 1:16 pm, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > On Aug 26, 7:26 am, Tiny123 <al...@chipndip.co.za> wrote:
> > > > > I have read several books where individuals like Mary Baxter, Roland
> > > > > Buck, Marrietta Davis, Jesse Duplantis etc have either visited heaven
> > > > > or hell, or even both and wrote about it. The Davis account was even
> > > > > written in the late 1800's. In all these accounts there is a clear
> > > > > sense of the surround, what is happening and they can write about it
> > > > > afterwards. I have however not read any report of buddist, athiest,
> > > > > islam, hindu etc visiting their "paradise" and returning to tell us
> > > > > about it. Am i missing anything
> > > > LL: You are certainly missing something when you a about atheists
> > > > going to their paradise. There is NO atheist paradise. We know that
> > > > this life is all we have because there is NO evidence to the
> > > > contrary. There is no place for us to go to or come back from.
> > > > or does this only happen to
> > > > > christians. Makes me wonder!
> > > > LL: Since I haven't heard such stories from non-Christians I can only
> > > > assume that they are the only ones who have such "experiences,"
> > > > probably because they have been so well indoctrinated into believing
> > > > paradise exists that they won't consider that it doesn't. There are
> > > > many people who have such hallucinations.- Hide quoted text -
except I don't have dreams unless they are something like this -- or warnings for someone else. I don't dream....God sends dreams to His handmaids to be used for warnings!!! In the end times, He sends dreams and visions. And, God has done this throughout time. My father spoke of the dream HE had where God directed his life. Interesting.
On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 3:40 PM, Drafterman <drafter...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 3, 4:19 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I can remember waking up after a vivid dream and thinking, I haven't > thought > > about that person for a long time. Within the next week, I saw their > obit > > in the newspaper. I should have written the dream down and then watched > to > > see if it was the day of their death. > > My husbands grandmother two weeks before she died heard her husband and > best > > friend talking. She asked me if it meant anything, and at the time I > hadn't > > had enough experience to know. > > My father-in-law told me he was going to get out of the nursing home in > two > > weeks. He died to the day, two weeks later. He told my husband he had > been > > talking with a couple of his boyhood friends, who had been dead since > WWII. > > When I confronted a nurse at the nursing home about this, she stated that > > this kind of thing happened all the time. > > There is a tomb stone in England that reads something like this: > > *It won't be long until you come the way I've gone.* > > To which someone has scribbled underneath: > > *Not until I know which way you went.*
> Ok, now take those events and compare them to similar situations that > didn't pan out. For example:
> When you dreamed of an old friend and then you didn't read about their > obit. > Or you read about an old friend's obit but didn't dream about them.
> Unfortunately these common occurances probably don't stick out in your > mind, so you don't remember them.
> Statistically, coincidences WILL happen. Given the fact that you will > generally remember weird coincidences over common occurances leads to > the impression that they are somehow special. They aren't out of the > norm, they are part of the fringes of the bell curve that make up the > norm.
> > On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 8:11 AM, Bob Crowley <bobcrow...@acenet.net.au > >wrote:
> > > Well, the night my father died, I did have a visit from him. The only > > > trouble was that he died several miles away. I felt something like > > > someone shaking my back, rolled over and got the surprise of my life > > > when he appeared in the corner of the room. I say nothing else but > > > him. He started with an apology and the whole episode ended when he > > > gave this terrifying scream and disappeared. That was very nearly 30 > > > years ago, and I still remember the scream even today.
> > > Four days later my uncle turned up to tell me he had died. I still > > > remember standing there when the penny dropped, counting back the days > > > and thinking "What the hell was that the other night?' Moreover from > > > time to time I meet other people who have had uncanny experiences.
> > > Some months ago I met a bloke who'd had an NDE, being technically dead > > > for 10 minutes. He remembered he could hear the doctor's voices, > > > "Better get the register." Then his body shook and he heard, "Hang > > > on, he just shook, better try again!" He said "You should have the > > > looks on the doctors' faces when they came to visit me later!" He > > > also experienced the white light so common to NDE's.
> > > I think you atheists are in for the shock of your lives the day you > > > die. You're going to find out just how wrong you are.
> > > On Aug 31, 1:36 am, skeptic griggsy <lambert...@hughes.net> wrote: > > > > All religious experiences,including NBE's, and OBE'S are just > > > > manifestations of ones own mentality.Dr..Persinger and another > > > > investigator ever show that. Naturalists can have such experiences > but > > > > realize that those have no divine input. Ones cultural conditioning > > > > influences the contents such that Christians see Christian symbols, > > > > etc. > > > > One begs the question of Heaven anyway! > > > > Oh, the problem of Heaven [ ' Arguments for God ' ] is a > grave > > > > challenge to theistic theodicy. > > > > And Daniel and Revelations are just dreams, with aboslutely no > > > > relation with reality. > > > > Logic is the bane of theists; theists beg questions. Fr. Griggs > rests > > > > in his Socratic ignorance and humble naturalism. He might be wrong! > He > > > > is a fallibilist.
> > > > On Aug 26, 1:16 pm, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Aug 26, 7:26 am, Tiny123 <al...@chipndip.co.za> wrote:
> > > > > > I have read several books where individuals like Mary Baxter, > Roland > > > > > > Buck, Marrietta Davis, Jesse Duplantis etc have either visited > heaven > > > > > > or hell, or even both and wrote about it. The Davis account was > even > > > > > > written in the late 1800's. In all these accounts there is a > clear > > > > > > sense of the surround, what is happening and they can write about > it > > > > > > afterwards. I have however not read any report of buddist, > athiest, > > > > > > islam, hindu etc visiting their "paradise" and returning to tell > us > > > > > > about it. Am i missing anything
> > > > > LL: You are certainly missing something when you a about atheists > > > > > going to their paradise. There is NO atheist paradise. We know that > > > > > this life is all we have because there is NO evidence to the > > > > > contrary. There is no place for us to go to or come back from.
> > > > > or does this only happen to
> > > > > > christians. Makes me wonder!
> > > > > LL: Since I haven't heard such stories from non-Christians I can > only > > > > > assume that they are the only ones who have such "experiences," > > > > > probably because they have been so well indoctrinated into > believing > > > > > paradise exists that they won't consider that it doesn't. There are > > > > > many people who have such hallucinations.- Hide quoted text -
On Sep 3, 4:54 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> except I don't have dreams unless they are something like this -- or
> warnings for someone else. I don't dream....God sends dreams to His
> handmaids to be used for warnings!!!
Really? So that dream about your friend was a warning? Well I guess
you fucked up pretty badly since it clearly didn't do your friend any
good. Imagine if that God knew that your friend was going to die, but
was unsaved and sent you the dream to try and convert him. Since you
failed to act on it your friend is burning in hell. Shame on you.
> In the end times, He sends dreams and visions. And, God has done this
> throughout time.
> My father spoke of the dream HE had where God directed his life.
> Interesting.
> On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 3:40 PM, Drafterman <drafter...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sep 3, 4:19 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I can remember waking up after a vivid dream and thinking, I haven't
> > thought
> > > about that person for a long time. Within the next week, I saw their
> > obit
> > > in the newspaper. I should have written the dream down and then watched
> > to
> > > see if it was the day of their death.
> > > My husbands grandmother two weeks before she died heard her husband and
> > best
> > > friend talking. She asked me if it meant anything, and at the time I
> > hadn't
> > > had enough experience to know.
> > > My father-in-law told me he was going to get out of the nursing home in
> > two
> > > weeks. He died to the day, two weeks later. He told my husband he had
> > been
> > > talking with a couple of his boyhood friends, who had been dead since
> > WWII.
> > > When I confronted a nurse at the nursing home about this, she stated that
> > > this kind of thing happened all the time.
> > > There is a tomb stone in England that reads something like this:
> > > *It won't be long until you come the way I've gone.*
> > > To which someone has scribbled underneath:
> > > *Not until I know which way you went.*
> > Ok, now take those events and compare them to similar situations that
> > didn't pan out. For example:
> > When you dreamed of an old friend and then you didn't read about their
> > obit.
> > Or you read about an old friend's obit but didn't dream about them.
> > Unfortunately these common occurances probably don't stick out in your
> > mind, so you don't remember them.
> > Statistically, coincidences WILL happen. Given the fact that you will
> > generally remember weird coincidences over common occurances leads to
> > the impression that they are somehow special. They aren't out of the
> > norm, they are part of the fringes of the bell curve that make up the
> > norm.
> > > On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 8:11 AM, Bob Crowley <bobcrow...@acenet.net.au
> > >wrote:
> > > > Well, the night my father died, I did have a visit from him. The only
> > > > trouble was that he died several miles away. I felt something like
> > > > someone shaking my back, rolled over and got the surprise of my life
> > > > when he appeared in the corner of the room. I say nothing else but
> > > > him. He started with an apology and the whole episode ended when he
> > > > gave this terrifying scream and disappeared. That was very nearly 30
> > > > years ago, and I still remember the scream even today.
> > > > Four days later my uncle turned up to tell me he had died. I still
> > > > remember standing there when the penny dropped, counting back the days
> > > > and thinking "What the hell was that the other night?' Moreover from
> > > > time to time I meet other people who have had uncanny experiences.
> > > > Some months ago I met a bloke who'd had an NDE, being technically dead
> > > > for 10 minutes. He remembered he could hear the doctor's voices,
> > > > "Better get the register." Then his body shook and he heard, "Hang
> > > > on, he just shook, better try again!" He said "You should have the
> > > > looks on the doctors' faces when they came to visit me later!" He
> > > > also experienced the white light so common to NDE's.
> > > > I think you atheists are in for the shock of your lives the day you
> > > > die. You're going to find out just how wrong you are.
> > > > On Aug 31, 1:36 am, skeptic griggsy <lambert...@hughes.net> wrote:
> > > > > All religious experiences,including NBE's, and OBE'S are just
> > > > > manifestations of ones own mentality.Dr..Persinger and another
> > > > > investigator ever show that. Naturalists can have such experiences
> > but
> > > > > realize that those have no divine input. Ones cultural conditioning
> > > > > influences the contents such that Christians see Christian symbols,
> > > > > etc.
> > > > > One begs the question of Heaven anyway!
> > > > > Oh, the problem of Heaven [ ' Arguments for God ' ] is a
> > grave
> > > > > challenge to theistic theodicy.
> > > > > And Daniel and Revelations are just dreams, with aboslutely no
> > > > > relation with reality.
> > > > > Logic is the bane of theists; theists beg questions. Fr. Griggs
> > rests
> > > > > in his Socratic ignorance and humble naturalism. He might be wrong!
> > He
> > > > > is a fallibilist.
> > > > > On Aug 26, 1:16 pm, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Aug 26, 7:26 am, Tiny123 <al...@chipndip.co.za> wrote:
> > > > > > > I have read several books where individuals like Mary Baxter,
> > Roland
> > > > > > > Buck, Marrietta Davis, Jesse Duplantis etc have either visited
> > heaven
> > > > > > > or hell, or even both and wrote about it. The Davis account was
> > even
> > > > > > > written in the late 1800's. In all these accounts there is a
> > clear
> > > > > > > sense of the surround, what is happening and they can write about
> > it
> > > > > > > afterwards. I have however not read any report of buddist,
> > athiest,
> > > > > > > islam, hindu etc visiting their "paradise" and returning to tell
> > us
> > > > > > > about it. Am i missing anything
> > > > > > LL: You are certainly missing something when you a about atheists
> > > > > > going to their paradise. There is NO atheist paradise. We know that
> > > > > > this life is all we have because there is NO evidence to the
> > > > > > contrary. There is no place for us to go to or come back from.
> > > > > > or does this only happen to
> > > > > > > christians. Makes me wonder!
> > > > > > LL: Since I haven't heard such stories from non-Christians I can
> > only
> > > > > > assume that they are the only ones who have such "experiences,"
> > > > > > probably because they have been so well indoctrinated into
> > believing
> > > > > > paradise exists that they won't consider that it doesn't. There are
> > > > > > many people who have such hallucinations.- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
On Sep 3, 1:54 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> except I don't have dreams unless they are something like this -- or
> warnings for someone else. I don't dream....God sends dreams to His
> handmaids to be used for warnings!!!
> In the end times, He sends dreams and visions. And, God has done this
> throughout time.
Let me get this straight: God has sent dreams and visions in the end
times throughout time? What that amounts to is that all times are end
times. Obviously you are wrong. Making sense is not a high priority
with you, is it?
> My father spoke of the dream HE had where God directed his life.
> Interesting.
> On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 3:40 PM, Drafterman <drafter...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sep 3, 4:19 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I can remember waking up after a vivid dream and thinking, I haven't
> > thought
> > > about that person for a long time. Within the next week, I saw their
> > obit
> > > in the newspaper. I should have written the dream down and then watched
> > to
> > > see if it was the day of their death.
> > > My husbands grandmother two weeks before she died heard her husband and
> > best
> > > friend talking. She asked me if it meant anything, and at the time I
> > hadn't
> > > had enough experience to know.
> > > My father-in-law told me he was going to get out of the nursing home in
> > two
> > > weeks. He died to the day, two weeks later. He told my husband he had
> > been
> > > talking with a couple of his boyhood friends, who had been dead since
> > WWII.
> > > When I confronted a nurse at the nursing home about this, she stated that
> > > this kind of thing happened all the time.
> > > There is a tomb stone in England that reads something like this:
> > > *It won't be long until you come the way I've gone.*
> > > To which someone has scribbled underneath:
> > > *Not until I know which way you went.*
> > Ok, now take those events and compare them to similar situations that
> > didn't pan out. For example:
> > When you dreamed of an old friend and then you didn't read about their
> > obit.
> > Or you read about an old friend's obit but didn't dream about them.
> > Unfortunately these common occurances probably don't stick out in your
> > mind, so you don't remember them.
> > Statistically, coincidences WILL happen. Given the fact that you will
> > generally remember weird coincidences over common occurances leads to
> > the impression that they are somehow special. They aren't out of the
> > norm, they are part of the fringes of the bell curve that make up the
> > norm.
> > > On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 8:11 AM, Bob Crowley <bobcrow...@acenet.net.au
> > >wrote:
> > > > Well, the night my father died, I did have a visit from him. The only
> > > > trouble was that he died several miles away. I felt something like
> > > > someone shaking my back, rolled over and got the surprise of my life
> > > > when he appeared in the corner of the room. I say nothing else but
> > > > him. He started with an apology and the whole episode ended when he
> > > > gave this terrifying scream and disappeared. That was very nearly 30
> > > > years ago, and I still remember the scream even today.
> > > > Four days later my uncle turned up to tell me he had died. I still
> > > > remember standing there when the penny dropped, counting back the days
> > > > and thinking "What the hell was that the other night?' Moreover from
> > > > time to time I meet other people who have had uncanny experiences.
> > > > Some months ago I met a bloke who'd had an NDE, being technically dead
> > > > for 10 minutes. He remembered he could hear the doctor's voices,
> > > > "Better get the register." Then his body shook and he heard, "Hang
> > > > on, he just shook, better try again!" He said "You should have the
> > > > looks on the doctors' faces when they came to visit me later!" He
> > > > also experienced the white light so common to NDE's.
> > > > I think you atheists are in for the shock of your lives the day you
> > > > die. You're going to find out just how wrong you are.
> > > > On Aug 31, 1:36 am, skeptic griggsy <lambert...@hughes.net> wrote:
> > > > > All religious experiences,including NBE's, and OBE'S are just
> > > > > manifestations of ones own mentality.Dr..Persinger and another
> > > > > investigator ever show that. Naturalists can have such experiences
> > but
> > > > > realize that those have no divine input. Ones cultural conditioning
> > > > > influences the contents such that Christians see Christian symbols,
> > > > > etc.
> > > > > One begs the question of Heaven anyway!
> > > > > Oh, the problem of Heaven [ ' Arguments for God ' ] is a
> > grave
> > > > > challenge to theistic theodicy.
> > > > > And Daniel and Revelations are just dreams, with aboslutely no
> > > > > relation with reality.
> > > > > Logic is the bane of theists; theists beg questions. Fr. Griggs
> > rests
> > > > > in his Socratic ignorance and humble naturalism. He might be wrong!
> > He
> > > > > is a fallibilist.
> > > > > On Aug 26, 1:16 pm, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Aug 26, 7:26 am, Tiny123 <al...@chipndip.co.za> wrote:
> > > > > > > I have read several books where individuals like Mary Baxter,
> > Roland
> > > > > > > Buck, Marrietta Davis, Jesse Duplantis etc have either visited
> > heaven
> > > > > > > or hell, or even both and wrote about it. The Davis account was
> > even
> > > > > > > written in the late 1800's. In all these accounts there is a
> > clear
> > > > > > > sense of the surround, what is happening and they can write about
> > it
> > > > > > > afterwards. I have however not read any report of buddist,
> > athiest,
> > > > > > > islam, hindu etc visiting their "paradise" and returning to tell
> > us
> > > > > > > about it. Am i missing anything
> > > > > > LL: You are certainly missing something when you a about atheists
> > > > > > going to their paradise. There is NO atheist paradise. We know that
> > > > > > this life is all we have because there is NO evidence to the
> > > > > > contrary. There is no place for us to go to or come back from.
> > > > > > or does this only happen to
> > > > > > > christians. Makes me wonder!
> > > > > > LL: Since I haven't heard such stories from non-Christians I can
> > only
> > > > > > assume that they are the only ones who have such "experiences,"
> > > > > > probably because they have been so well indoctrinated into
> > believing
> > > > > > paradise exists that they won't consider that it doesn't. There are
> > > > > > many people who have such hallucinations.- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 5:52 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 3, 1:54 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote: > > except I don't have dreams unless they are something like this -- or > > warnings for someone else. I don't dream....God sends dreams to His > > handmaids to be used for warnings!!!
> > In the end times, He sends dreams and visions. And, God has done this > > throughout time.
> Let me get this straight: God has sent dreams and visions in the end > times throughout time? What that amounts to is that all times are end > times. Obviously you are wrong. Making sense is not a high priority > with you, is it?
> > My father spoke of the dream HE had where God directed his life. > > Interesting.
> > On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 3:40 PM, Drafterman <drafter...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Sep 3, 4:19 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > I can remember waking up after a vivid dream and thinking, I haven't > > > thought > > > > about that person for a long time. Within the next week, I saw their > > > obit > > > > in the newspaper. I should have written the dream down and then > watched > > > to > > > > see if it was the day of their death. > > > > My husbands grandmother two weeks before she died heard her husband > and > > > best > > > > friend talking. She asked me if it meant anything, and at the time I > > > hadn't > > > > had enough experience to know. > > > > My father-in-law told me he was going to get out of the nursing home > in > > > two > > > > weeks. He died to the day, two weeks later. He told my husband he > had > > > been > > > > talking with a couple of his boyhood friends, who had been dead since > > > WWII. > > > > When I confronted a nurse at the nursing home about this, she stated > that > > > > this kind of thing happened all the time. > > > > There is a tomb stone in England that reads something like this: > > > > *It won't be long until you come the way I've gone.* > > > > To which someone has scribbled underneath: > > > > *Not until I know which way you went.*
> > > Ok, now take those events and compare them to similar situations that > > > didn't pan out. For example:
> > > When you dreamed of an old friend and then you didn't read about their > > > obit. > > > Or you read about an old friend's obit but didn't dream about them.
> > > Unfortunately these common occurances probably don't stick out in your > > > mind, so you don't remember them.
> > > Statistically, coincidences WILL happen. Given the fact that you will > > > generally remember weird coincidences over common occurances leads to > > > the impression that they are somehow special. They aren't out of the > > > norm, they are part of the fringes of the bell curve that make up the > > > norm.
> > > > On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 8:11 AM, Bob Crowley < > bobcrow...@acenet.net.au > > > >wrote:
> > > > > Well, the night my father died, I did have a visit from him. The > only > > > > > trouble was that he died several miles away. I felt something > like > > > > > someone shaking my back, rolled over and got the surprise of my > life > > > > > when he appeared in the corner of the room. I say nothing else but > > > > > him. He started with an apology and the whole episode ended when > he > > > > > gave this terrifying scream and disappeared. That was very nearly > 30 > > > > > years ago, and I still remember the scream even today.
> > > > > Four days later my uncle turned up to tell me he had died. I still > > > > > remember standing there when the penny dropped, counting back the > days > > > > > and thinking "What the hell was that the other night?' Moreover > from > > > > > time to time I meet other people who have had uncanny experiences.
> > > > > Some months ago I met a bloke who'd had an NDE, being technically > dead > > > > > for 10 minutes. He remembered he could hear the doctor's voices, > > > > > "Better get the register." Then his body shook and he heard, "Hang > > > > > on, he just shook, better try again!" He said "You should have the > > > > > looks on the doctors' faces when they came to visit me later!" He > > > > > also experienced the white light so common to NDE's.
> > > > > I think you atheists are in for the shock of your lives the day you > > > > > die. You're going to find out just how wrong you are.
> > > > > On Aug 31, 1:36 am, skeptic griggsy <lambert...@hughes.net> wrote: > > > > > > All religious experiences,including NBE's, and OBE'S are just > > > > > > manifestations of ones own mentality.Dr..Persinger and another > > > > > > investigator ever show that. Naturalists can have such > experiences > > > but > > > > > > realize that those have no divine input. Ones cultural > conditioning > > > > > > influences the contents such that Christians see Christian > symbols, > > > > > > etc. > > > > > > One begs the question of Heaven anyway! > > > > > > Oh, the problem of Heaven [ ' Arguments for God ' ] is a > > > grave > > > > > > challenge to theistic theodicy. > > > > > > And Daniel and Revelations are just dreams, with aboslutely no > > > > > > relation with reality. > > > > > > Logic is the bane of theists; theists beg questions. Fr. Griggs > > > rests > > > > > > in his Socratic ignorance and humble naturalism. He might be > wrong! > > > He > > > > > > is a fallibilist.
> > > > > > On Aug 26, 1:16 pm, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Aug 26, 7:26 am, Tiny123 <al...@chipndip.co.za> wrote:
> > > > > > > > I have read several books where individuals like Mary Baxter, > > > Roland > > > > > > > > Buck, Marrietta Davis, Jesse Duplantis etc have either > visited > > > heaven > > > > > > > > or hell, or even both and wrote about it. The Davis account > was > > > even > > > > > > > > written in the late 1800's. In all these accounts there is a > > > clear > > > > > > > > sense of the surround, what is happening and they can write > about > > > it > > > > > > > > afterwards. I have however not read any report of buddist, > > > athiest, > > > > > > > > islam, hindu etc visiting their "paradise" and returning to > tell > > > us > > > > > > > > about it. Am i missing anything
> > > > > > > LL: You are certainly missing something when you a about > atheists > > > > > > > going to their paradise. There is NO atheist paradise. We know > that > > > > > > > this life is all we have because there is NO evidence to the > > > > > > > contrary. There is no place for us to go to or come back from.
> > > > > > > or does this only happen to
> > > > > > > > christians. Makes me wonder!
> > > > > > > LL: Since I haven't heard such stories from non-Christians I > can > > > only > > > > > > > assume that they are the only ones who have such "experiences," > > > > > > > probably because they have been so well indoctrinated into > > > believing > > > > > > > paradise exists that they won't consider that it doesn't. There > are > > > > > > > many people who have such hallucinations.- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
On Sep 4, 8:46 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> have you ever immediate awoken after having a dream and asked God what it
> was all about?
No. Why would I? I'm an atheist, remember? You don't seem to grasp
that concept. I do not attribute anything to God, and I won't until
you get me some concrete evidence that he exists. As it stands, you
are getting further away from achieving that every time you open your
mouth.
> On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 5:52 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sep 3, 1:54 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > except I don't have dreams unless they are something like this -- or
> > > warnings for someone else. I don't dream....God sends dreams to His
> > > handmaids to be used for warnings!!!
> > > In the end times, He sends dreams and visions. And, God has done this
> > > throughout time.
> > Let me get this straight: God has sent dreams and visions in the end
> > times throughout time? What that amounts to is that all times are end
> > times. Obviously you are wrong. Making sense is not a high priority
> > with you, is it?
> > > My father spoke of the dream HE had where God directed his life.
> > > Interesting.
> > > On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 3:40 PM, Drafterman <drafter...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Sep 3, 4:19 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > I can remember waking up after a vivid dream and thinking, I haven't
> > > > thought
> > > > > about that person for a long time. Within the next week, I saw their
> > > > obit
> > > > > in the newspaper. I should have written the dream down and then
> > watched
> > > > to
> > > > > see if it was the day of their death.
> > > > > My husbands grandmother two weeks before she died heard her husband
> > and
> > > > best
> > > > > friend talking. She asked me if it meant anything, and at the time I
> > > > hadn't
> > > > > had enough experience to know.
> > > > > My father-in-law told me he was going to get out of the nursing home
> > in
> > > > two
> > > > > weeks. He died to the day, two weeks later. He told my husband he
> > had
> > > > been
> > > > > talking with a couple of his boyhood friends, who had been dead since
> > > > WWII.
> > > > > When I confronted a nurse at the nursing home about this, she stated
> > that
> > > > > this kind of thing happened all the time.
> > > > > There is a tomb stone in
