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Deekster  
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(3 users)  More options Aug 27 2008, 2:59 pm
From: Deekster <whatsmada...@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:59:05 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:59 pm
Subject: God with our intelligence of today
I'd like to start something new.  A new way of thinking.  We have
evolved and grown more intelligent, as allowed by God.  But who, or
rather what, is God.  I would like to introduce that God our father is
in fact the universe that we exist within.  He is a large mass of
swirling energy that has both a conscience and a self awareness.  He
is our batteries.  He sets in motion everything.  And if he is a large
mass of swirling energy and we are made in his image, we are small
masses of energy.  We exist within forms called humans.  We are what
are known as the soul.  Because if there is a large mass of energy
that is trying to explain feelings or emotions to his children, than
how could this powerful being teach his children?  Because if we are
small masses of energy without any physical limitations imposed upon
us, how would we know what cold is?  What sad is?  Basically what any
feeling or emotion is?  Our father wouldn't be able to explain it to
us, he would have to let us experience it.  And in the process of
creating children and showing them these things, he would test their
strength.  Not only a physical strength, but a strength of believing
without proof.  He would know just which one of his children, when put
in a no win situation, would find him and do what was right.  I give
you planet earth.

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random  
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(1 user)  More options Aug 27 2008, 3:36 pm
From: random <random.s...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:36:26 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:36 pm
Subject: Re: God with our intelligence of today

On Aug 27, 6:59 am, Deekster <whatsmada...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I'd like to start something new.  A new way of thinking.  We have
> evolved and grown more intelligent, as allowed by God.  But who, or
> rather what, is God.  I would like to introduce that God our father is
> in fact the universe that we exist within.

So you claim that in a way, the universe itself is alive?
I don't suppose you can back it up somehow, right?

> He is a large mass of
> swirling energy that has both a conscience and a self awareness.  He
> is our batteries.  He sets in motion everything.  And if he is a large
> mass of swirling energy and we are made in his image, we are small
> masses of energy.  We exist within forms called humans.  We are what
> are known as the soul.

Here is the problem: We KNOW what energy is. We can measure it, use it
and sometimes even see it with our senses. But the word "soul" is an
empty word that is often used without explaining what it actually
means.

> Because if there is a large mass of energy
> that is trying to explain feelings or emotions to his children, than
> how could this powerful being teach his children?  Because if we are
> small masses of energy without any physical limitations imposed upon
> us, how would we know what cold is?  What sad is?  Basically what any
> feeling or emotion is?  Our father wouldn't be able to explain it to
> us, he would have to let us experience it.

There are things that must be experiences and cannot be taught, no
argument here.
However, there are also experiences that a loving father would not
want his children to feel, and he would prevent it if it is possible.

> And in the process of
> creating children and showing them these things, he would test their
> strength.  Not only a physical strength, but a strength of believing
> without proof.

Lost you here.
I see no value in believing something without proof, I see no value in
such a test and I certainly don't think it's necessary.

> He would know just which one of his children, when put
> in a no win situation, would find him and do what was right.  I give
> you planet earth.

Does an entity that can read minds needs an actual test to know how we
would react?
Does an entity who created each and every one of us in such a way, can
blame others for actions that were totally predictable to that deity
in the moment of creation?

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hucktunes  
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 More options Aug 27 2008, 7:51 pm
From: hucktunes <bob.h...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 01:51:42 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Wed, Aug 27 2008 7:51 pm
Subject: Re: God with our intelligence of today
On Aug 26, 8:59 pm, Deekster <whatsmada...@yahoo.com> wrote:
And in the process of

> creating children and showing them these things, he would test their
> strength.

Ah, like George Costanza's dad with the feats of strength. So, do you
celebrate Festivus?

On Aug 26, 9:36 pm, random <random.s...@gmail.com> wrote:


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Vivisectus  
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 More options Aug 27 2008, 10:00 pm
From: Vivisectus <Matthijs.Hilho...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 04:00:21 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Wed, Aug 27 2008 10:00 pm
Subject: Re: God with our intelligence of today
This works if you want to believe. It doesn't work if you do not. The
drawbacks of believing a lot of people here can explain to you at some
length. Personally, I think it is a little insulting to us as human
beings. Here we are in a giant universe we do not completely
understand, and possibly never will. Yet we create things like
justice, the concept of freedom, dignity, beauty. We order our
societies and try to find the best ways to do things. We learn and
explore. We do not baulk at the thought of infinity. With oblivion
behind us and before us, we defiantly create.

Why do we keep demanding some cosmic parent to break the bad scary
world into easily digestible half-truths? Doesn't that take away from
what it means to be a human being? Why do we spend so much time
looking for an invisible parent in stead of believing in human beings?

At least yours seems nice, a lot better than some. But it still
willingly demotes us to children at the feet of a master in my view,
without any demonstrable reason to do so.

On Aug 27, 4:59 am, Deekster <whatsmada...@yahoo.com> wrote:


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Observer  
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(2 users)  More options Aug 27 2008, 10:20 pm
From: Observer <mayors...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 04:20:43 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Wed, Aug 27 2008 10:20 pm
Subject: Re: God with our intelligence of today

On Aug 26, 8:59 pm, Deekster <whatsmada...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I'd like to start something new.  A new way of thinking.  We have
> evolved and grown more intelligent, as allowed by God.  But who, or
> rather what, is God.  I would like to introduce that God our father is
> in fact the universe that we exist within.  He is a large mass of
> swirling energy that has both a conscience and a self awareness.

Observer
What absolute superstitious crap.

 He

> is our batteries.  He sets in motion everything.  And if he is a large
> mass of swirling energy and we are made in his image, we are small
> masses of energy.  We exist within forms called humans.  We are what
> are known as the soul.

Observer
There exists, not one solitary piece of scientifically verifiable
substantiating data, for either the existence of nor any action by a
god, a soul , anything spiritual, any metaphysical substance or being.

Why do you believe such crap?

 Because if there is a large mass of energy

> that is trying to explain feelings or emotions to his children, than
> how could this powerful being teach his children?  Because if we are
> small masses of energy without any physical limitations imposed upon
> us, how would we know what cold is?  What sad is?  Basically what any
> feeling or emotion is?  

Observer
Emotions are the produce of fluctuating concentrations of endogenous
opiates (peptides) . Why do you want to make something mystical about
biological functions. Do you go into a prayerful trance when you take
a shit?

Our father wouldn't be able to explain it to

> us, he would have to let us experience it.

Observer
Stupid superstitious conjecture.

  And in the process of

> creating children and showing them these things, he would test their
> strength.  Not only a physical strength, but a strength of believing
> without proof.  

Observer
Believing with out proof is the act of a very stupid person. Here is
how to extract usable information from your universe .

Scientific method
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Cite This Source

Scientific method refers to the body of techniques for investigating
phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating
previous knowledge. It is based on gathering observable, empirical and
measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning. A
scientific method consists of the collection of data through
observation and experimentation, and the formulation and testing of
hypotheses.

Although procedures vary from one field of inquiry to another,
identifiable features distinguish scientific inquiry from other
methodologies of knowledge. Scientific researchers propose hypotheses
as explanations of phenomena, and design experimental studies to test
these hypotheses. These steps must be repeatable in order to
dependably predict any future results. Theories that encompass wider
domains of inquiry may bind many hypotheses together in a coherent
structure. This in turn may help form new hypotheses or place groups
of hypotheses into context.

Among other facets shared by the various fields of inquiry is the
conviction that the process be objective to reduce a biased
interpretation of the results. Another basic expectation is to
document, archive and share all data and methodology so they are
available for careful scrutiny by other scientists, thereby allowing
other researchers the opportunity to verify results by attempting to
reproduce them. This practice, called full disclosure, also allows
statistical measures of the reliability of these data to be
established.
Introduction to scientific method

Since Ibn al-Haytham (Alhazen, 965–1039), a pioneer of scientific
method, the emphasis has been on seeking truth:

The conjecture that "Light travels through transparent bodies in
straight lines only", was corroborated by Alhazen only after years of
effort. His demonstration of the conjecture was to place a straight
stick or a taut thread next to the light beam, to prove that light
travels in a straight line.

Scientific methodology has been practiced in some form for at least
one thousand years. There are difficulties in a formulaic statement of
method, however. As William Whewell (1794–1866) noted in his History
of Inductive Science (1837) and in Philosophy of Inductive Science
(1840), "invention, sagacity, genius" are required at every step in
scientific method. It is not enough to base scientific method on
experience alone; multiple steps are needed in scientific method,
ranging from our experience to our imagination, back and forth.

In the twentieth century, a hypothetico-deductive model for scientific
method was formulated (for a more formal discussion, see below):

    1. Use your experience: Consider the problem and try to make sense
of it. Look for previous explanations. If this is a new problem to
you, then move to step 2.

    2. Form a conjecture: When nothing else is yet known, try to state
an explanation, to someone else, or to your notebook.

    3. Deduce a prediction from that explanation: If you assume 2 is
true, what consequences follow?

    4. Test : Look for the opposite of each consequence in order to
disprove 2. It is a logical error to seek 3 directly as proof of 2.
This error is called affirming the consequent.

This model underlies the scientific revolution. One thousand years
ago, Alhazen demonstrated the importance of steps 1 and 4. Galileo
(1638) also showed the importance of step 4 (also called Experiment)
in Two New Sciences. One possible sequence in this model would be 1,
2, 3, 4. If the outcome of 4 holds, and 3 is not yet disproven, you
may continue with 3, 4, 1, and so forth; but if the outcome of 4 shows
3 to be false, you will have go back to 2 and try to invent a new 2,
deduce a new 3, look for 4, and so forth.

Note that this method can never absolutely verify (prove the truth of)
2. It can only falsify 2. (This is what Einstein meant when he said
"No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single
experiment can prove me wrong.")

In the twentieth century, Ludwik Fleck (1896–1961) and others found
that we need to consider our experiences more carefully, because our
experience may be biased, and that we need to be more exact when
describing our experiences. These considerations are discussed below.

Truth and belief
Belief can alter observations; those with a particular belief will
often see things as reinforcing their belief, even if they do not.
Needham's Science and Civilization in China uses the 'flying horse'
image as an example of observation: in it, a horse's legs are depicted
as splayed, when the stop-action picture by Eadweard Muybridge shows
otherwise. Note that at the moment that no hoof is touching the
ground, the horse's legs are gathered together and are not splayed.
Earlier paintings depict the incorrect flying horse observation. This
demonstrates Ludwik Fleck's caution that people observe what they
expect to observe, until shown otherwise; our beliefs will affect our
observations (and therefore our subsequent actions). The purpose of
the scientific method is to test a hypothesis, a belief about how
things are, via repeatable experimental observations which can
contradict the hypothesis so as to fight this observer bias.

He would know just which one of his children, when put

> in a no win situation, would find him and do what was right.  I give
> you planet earth.

You can stick your childish version of "planet earth" where the sun
don't shine.

The more you type the more completely stupid and unintelligible  are
your statements .

Regards and bah humbug !

Psychonomist


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dali_70  
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(2 users)  More options Aug 27 2008, 11:24 pm
From: dali_70 <w_e_coyot...@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 05:24:30 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Wed, Aug 27 2008 11:24 pm
Subject: Re: God with our intelligence of today
God is a neurological disorder. A misfiring in your brain that makes
you a superstitious boob, willing to believe all manner of nonsense.

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Drafterman  
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(2 users)  More options Aug 27 2008, 11:36 pm
From: Drafterman <drafter...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 05:36:48 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Wed, Aug 27 2008 11:36 pm
Subject: Re: God with our intelligence of today
On Aug 26, 11:59 pm, Deekster <whatsmada...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I'd like to start something new.  A new way of thinking.  We have
> evolved and grown more intelligent, as allowed by God.

If by "God" you mean "the laws of physics" then yes.

> But who, or
> rather what, is God.

A placeholder for ignorance.

> I would like to introduce that God our father is
> in fact the universe that we exist within.

This is not "something new" or "a new way of thinking" This is
pandeism. Also known as "sexed up atheism".

> He is a large mass of
> swirling energy that has both a conscience and a self awareness.

What is the mechanism for this consciousness and self awareness?

> He
> is our batteries.

Are we talking duracels or artillery?

> He sets in motion everything.

Prove it.

> And if he is a large
> mass of swirling energy and we are made in his image, we are small
> masses of energy.  We exist within forms called humans.  We are what
> are known as the soul.  Because if there is a large mass of energy
> that is trying to explain feelings or emotions to his children, than
> how could this powerful being teach his children?  Because if we are
> small masses of energy without any physical limitations imposed upon
> us, how would we know what cold is?  What sad is?  Basically what any
> feeling or emotion is?  Our father wouldn't be able to explain it to
> us, he would have to let us experience it.

And unless he himself has a body, how does he experience such things?

> And in the process of
> creating children and showing them these things, he would test their
> strength.  Not only a physical strength, but a strength of believing
> without proof.  He would know just which one of his children, when put
> in a no win situation, would find him and do what was right.  I give
> you planet earth.

No, you don't.

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Answer_42  
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 More options Aug 28 2008, 1:47 am
From: Answer_42 <ipu.belie...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 07:47:59 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Thurs, Aug 28 2008 1:47 am
Subject: Re: God with our intelligence of today
On Aug 26, 11:59 pm, Deekster <whatsmada...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I'd like to start something new.  A new way of thinking.  We have
> evolved and grown more intelligent, as allowed by God.  But who, or

Not all of us, it would seem...

<superstitious drivel snipped>

___________________________
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the
humble reasoning of a single individual.
-- Galileo


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Answer_42  
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 More options Aug 28 2008, 1:48 am
From: Answer_42 <ipu.belie...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 07:48:40 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Thurs, Aug 28 2008 1:48 am
Subject: Re: God with our intelligence of today
On Aug 27, 4:51 am, hucktunes <bob.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Aug 26, 8:59 pm, Deekster <whatsmada...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> And in the process of

> > creating children and showing them these things, he would test their
> > strength.

> Ah, like George Costanza's dad with the feats of strength. So, do you
> celebrate Festivus?

Ah, now, that was a great festival!
___________________________
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the
humble reasoning of a single individual.
-- Galileo

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Neil Kelsey  
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 More options Aug 28 2008, 2:33 am
From: Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:33:01 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Thurs, Aug 28 2008 2:33 am
Subject: Re: God with our intelligence of today

On Aug 26, 8:59 pm, Deekster <whatsmada...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I'd like to start something new.  A new way of thinking.  We have
> evolved and grown more intelligent, as allowed by God.  But who, or
> rather what, is God.  I would like to introduce that God our father is
> in fact the universe that we exist within.

We already have a name for the universe. It's called "universe." Why
confuse it by calling it "Go