If Atheists believe only on what is proved through experience.
History shows that the chance of
current understandings on things changing is 50 percent. Today the
primary problem to solve is
which 50% of what we think we know is bound to be totally wrong in the
future.
This belief system is based on very unstable ground indeed!!
My belief is that most Christians are Atheists. When all delusions
are boiled away what left is
a belief in Self preservation and Dominion over others through
trickery. I think that a true "Christian"
keeps his thoughts to himself and leads a "Live and Let Live", "No
Harm No Foul",
"Sticks and Stones" philosophy.
> If Atheists believe only on what is proved through experience.
The ones on here generally do, but I wouldn't call it a necessarily or
even common trait for atheists.
> History shows that the chance of
> current understandings on things changing is 50 percent. Today the
> primary problem to solve is
> which 50% of what we think we know is bound to be totally wrong in the
> future.
You just made that number up didn't you?
> This belief system is based on very unstable ground indeed!!
Atheism is, at most, a single position on a single topic. That's not
a belief system.
> My belief is that most Christians are Atheists. When all delusions
> are boiled away what left is
> a belief in Self preservation and Dominion over others through
> trickery.
Are you suggesting that "Atheists" have a belief in "Self preservation
and Dominion over others through trickery", because that's just
silly. You probably ought to read the faq.
> I think that a true "Christian"
> keeps his thoughts to himself and leads a "Live and Let Live", "No
> Harm No Foul",
> "Sticks and Stones" philosophy.
> My $0.02
On Aug 15, 2:19 pm, evenuscinatus <evenuscina...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If Atheists believe only on what is proved through experience.
> History shows that the chance of
> current understandings on things changing is 50 percent. Today the
> primary problem to solve is
> which 50% of what we think we know is bound to be totally wrong in the
> future.
> This belief system is based on very unstable ground indeed!!
> My belief is that most Christians are Atheists. When all delusions
> are boiled away what left is
> a belief in Self preservation and Dominion over others through
> trickery. I think that a true "Christian"
> keeps his thoughts to himself and leads a "Live and Let Live", "No
> Harm No Foul",
> "Sticks and Stones" philosophy.
On Aug 15, 2:19 pm, evenuscinatus <evenuscina...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If Atheists believe only on what is proved through experience.
LL: No, atheists don't believe in god, that's all t takes to be an
atheist. It's skeptics and rationalists who accept only what has been
shown to exist through evidence and reject that which has not been. An
atheist who has come to his atheism through that process is still just
an atheist.
> History shows that the chance of
> current understandings on things changing is 50 percent. Today the
> primary problem to solve is
> which 50% of what we think we know is bound to be totally wrong in the
> future.
> This belief system is based on very unstable ground indeed!!
LL: If we'd all only accept as true that which has objective evidence,
what we accept as true, but which changes later, will be very rare.
> My belief is that most Christians are Atheists. When all delusions
> are boiled away what left is
> a belief in Self preservation and Dominion over others through
> trickery. I think that a true "Christian"
> keeps his thoughts to himself and leads a "Live and Let Live", "No
> Harm No Foul",
> "Sticks and Stones" philosophy.
LL: If they truly believe a god exists you can't say they're atheists.
If they believe Jesus existed and was the son of god, they're
Christians. How they display their beliefs has no bearing on whether
they're "true Christians" or not, whatever that might mean.
---------------------------------------
Growing up and going to a Methodist church I sensed that most of the congregation I was a part of did not believe in Jesus, God, or life after death. A person is not a Christian simply because they refer to themselves as, or because they go to church, or follow mere religious traditions and observances.
On 8/15/08, evenuscinatus <evenuscina...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If Atheists believe only on what is proved through experience. > History shows that the chance of > current understandings on things changing is 50 percent. Today the > primary problem to solve is > which 50% of what we think we know is bound to be totally wrong in the > future. > This belief system is based on very unstable ground indeed!!
> My belief is that most Christians are Atheists. When all delusions > are boiled away what left is > a belief in Self preservation and Dominion over others through > trickery. I think that a true "Christian" > keeps his thoughts to himself and leads a "Live and Let Live", "No > Harm No Foul", > "Sticks and Stones" philosophy.
> Growing up and going to a Methodist church I sensed that most of the
> congregation I was a part of did not believe in Jesus, God, or life after
> death.
I wonder how you "sensed" all that?
I would be very surprised if the majority had no belief in God
(however defined) at all. I would not be surprised that people were
less firm about, for example, what life after death actually entailed.
It is interesting that the mainstream Anglican tradition (to which I
belong) has long had a kind of approach which says that "here is what
the church holds to be true" but then generally lets lay practitioners
a fair degree of freedom in their actual private beliefs : a typically
English compromise between the Protestant view that religion is a
matter of personal conscience and the Catholic view about the central
importance of tradition.
> A person is not a Christian simply because they refer to themselves
> as, or because they go to church, or follow mere religious traditions and
> observances.
Obviously. The "mere" word is a putdown though. (A bit like calling
religion "mere" myth etc. as many are want to do.)
There is a lot to be said for traditions and observances - especially
when people know what it is they are doing and why and as part of an
historical spiritual community. But even when they don't they can
sometimes be useful anyway. For example, their are many atheists who
self-consciously style themselves as cultural jews and follow many of
the traditions of that faith like observing the Sabbath and Pesach so
on because they see value in those traditions.
> If Atheists believe only on what is proved through experience.
> History shows that the chance of
> current understandings on things changing is 50 percent. Today the
> primary problem to solve is
> which 50% of what we think we know is bound to be totally wrong in the
> future.
> This belief system is based on very unstable ground indeed!!
> My belief is that most Christians are Atheists. When all delusions
> are boiled away what left is
> a belief in Self preservation and Dominion over others through
> trickery. I think that a true "Christian"
> keeps his thoughts to himself and leads a "Live and Let Live", "No
> Harm No Foul",
> "Sticks and Stones" philosophy.
> My $0.02
My $0.02
If your estimation is 50% on a complex subject, you are most certainly
wrong. But yes, according to polls, a lot of members of the Roman
Catholic Church in Europe are atheists, which is quite paradoxal
considering the dogmas.
I think we would agree on many more things than otherwise. I sensed many so-called Christians were not genuine because many absolutely seemed to be Christians just one day of the week (at most) dressing up, attending church and having Sunday dinner beginning with a prayer of thanks. After that they were indistinguishable from secular people in the community that they lived and worked with. They did not talk about their faith, or the Great Questions such as life after death. It was only the unmanly men who talked about Jesus and only the straight-laced school-marm type of old women who spent most of their time in church-related activities. I think it is completely ridiculous. Remember the movie, "The Ten Commandments?" I think the man of God as depicted by Charleton Heston was a good example of what a masculine, unashamed man should be like. The wimpy leaders of the Roman Catholic Church have made men feel feminine about witnessing their faith. It is contrary to all sensibility. I believe traditions and holiday observances are good for people who need that to nourish their faith. I do not need it. My faith is not dependent upon crutches, constant (vain) ritual and dressing up in Sunday clothes. That is what the Bible refers to as the milk, it is what the immature follower of Christ need. I seek the meat of the matter. I seek truth even if it means discarding vain ritual, vain traditions of men, observances of days and times. And I am completely proud of the fact that I love God and that God, truth and righteousness are the focus of my life.
On 8/16/08, Commentatrix <commentat...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Growing up and going to a Methodist church I sensed that most of the > > congregation I was a part of did not believe in Jesus, God, or life after > > death.
> I wonder how you "sensed" all that?
> I would be very surprised if the majority had no belief in God > (however defined) at all. I would not be surprised that people were > less firm about, for example, what life after death actually entailed.
> It is interesting that the mainstream Anglican tradition (to which I > belong) has long had a kind of approach which says that "here is what > the church holds to be true" but then generally lets lay practitioners > a fair degree of freedom in their actual private beliefs : a typically > English compromise between the Protestant view that religion is a > matter of personal conscience and the Catholic view about the central > importance of tradition.
> > A person is not a Christian simply because they refer to themselves > > as, or because they go to church, or follow mere religious traditions and > > observances.
> Obviously. The "mere" word is a putdown though. (A bit like calling > religion "mere" myth etc. as many are want to do.)
> There is a lot to be said for traditions and observances - especially > when people know what it is they are doing and why and as part of an > historical spiritual community. But even when they don't they can > sometimes be useful anyway. For example, their are many atheists who > self-consciously style themselves as cultural jews and follow many of > the traditions of that faith like observing the Sabbath and Pesach so > on because they see value in those traditions.
On Aug 15, 5:19 pm, evenuscinatus <evenuscina...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If Atheists believe only on what is proved through experience.
> History shows that the chance of
> current understandings on things changing is 50 percent. Today the
> primary problem to solve is
> which 50% of what we think we know is bound to be totally wrong in the
> future.
> This belief system is based on very unstable ground indeed!!
Except for the fact that the scientific method has a very clear
history of winning out over religious views.
Flat earth (religious in origin) -- wrong. Solved when scientific
Greeks figured the curvature of the earth.
Illness caused by curses and evil hexes (religious in origin) --
wrong. Scientists discovered that microscopic things carried them, and
understood this as far back as the 1700s.
The bottom line is that virtually all ideas about how the physical
world works that are based in religion, have been superceded by
science.
> My belief is that most Christians are Atheists. When all delusions
> are boiled away what left is
> a belief in Self preservation and Dominion over others through
> trickery. I think that a true "Christian"
> keeps his thoughts to himself and leads a "Live and Let Live", "No
> Harm No Foul",
> "Sticks and Stones" philosophy.
No you had it right the first time -- when all delusions are boiled
away, Christianity (true or otherwise, since every sect believes
itself to be true, and all others false, thus they can never do
wrong), Christianity is nothing more than self preservation and
dominion over others through trickery. Nothing pushes this fact home
better than modern examples like the Creationist movement (entirely
based on deception, and not on facts), the historical revisionism
found on Conservapedia, the evangelical attempt to re-write Margaret
Sanger as a Racist Nazi, all based on misquoting her and others, and
the bizarre mental contortions abstinance, anti-sex, and anti-gay
movements. All of these things are promoted through a series of lies
and deceptions, and that is what modern Christianity, as well as old
Christianity seemed to be about. Despite scientific facts proving them
wrong, they respond to the facts by banning them, creating revisionist
versions, intimidation of dissenters, and imprisonment of people who
are outspoken against the official Christian line.
On Aug 15, 8:10 pm, "Keith MacNevins" <kmacnev...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Growing up and going to a Methodist church I sensed that most of the
> congregation I was a part of did not believe in Jesus, God, or life after
> death. A person is not a Christian simply because they refer to themselves
> as, or because they go to church, or follow mere religious traditions and
> observances.
LL: That may be true, but you wouldn't know that about anyone unless
they came right out and said they didn't believe in Jesus, God or life
after death, and I can't imagine that many church-goers would admit
it. So you'd still have nothing to go on but what they say or imply
about their Christianity.
> On 8/15/08, evenuscinatus <evenuscina...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > If Atheists believe only on what is proved through experience.
> > History shows that the chance of
> > current understandings on things changing is 50 percent. Today the
> > primary problem to solve is
> > which 50% of what we think we know is bound to be totally wrong in the
> > future.
> > This belief system is based on very unstable ground indeed!!
> > My belief is that most Christians are Atheists. When all delusions
> > are boiled away what left is
> > a belief in Self preservation and Dominion over others through
> > trickery. I think that a true "Christian"
> > keeps his thoughts to himself and leads a "Live and Let Live", "No
> > Harm No Foul",
> > "Sticks and Stones" philosophy.
> I think we would agree on many more things than otherwise. I sensed many
> so-called Christians were not genuine because many absolutely seemed to be
> Christians just one day of the week (at most) dressing up, attending church
> and having Sunday dinner beginning with a prayer of thanks. After that they
> were indistinguishable from secular people in the community that they lived
> and worked with. They did not talk about their faith, or the Great Questions
> such as life after death. It was only the unmanly men who talked about Jesus
> and only the straight-laced school-marm type of old women who spent most of
> their time in church-related activities. I think it is completely
> ridiculous. Remember the movie, "The Ten Commandments?" I think the man of
> God as depicted by Charleton Heston was a good example of what a masculine,
> unashamed man should be like. The wimpy leaders of the Roman Catholic Church
> have made men feel feminine about witnessing their faith. It is contrary to
> all sensibility. I believe traditions and holiday observances are good for
> people who need that to nourish their faith. I do not need it. My faith is
> not dependent upon crutches, constant (vain) ritual and dressing up in
> Sunday clothes. That is what the Bible refers to as the milk, it is what the
> immature follower of Christ need. I seek the meat of the matter. I seek
> truth even if it means discarding vain ritual, vain traditions of men,
> observances of days and times. And I am completely proud of the fact that I
> love God and that God, truth and righteousness are the focus of my life.
LL: But all too many of these un-Christian Christians will point to
the babble the minute something comes up about homosexuality and
abortion. Nothing like even more hypocracy to wash down the communion
wafer and wine.
> On 8/16/08, Commentatrix <commentat...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Growing up and going to a Methodist church I sensed that most of the
> > > congregation I was a part of did not believe in Jesus, God, or life after
> > > death.
> > I wonder how you "sensed" all that?
> > I would be very surprised if the majority had no belief in God
> > (however defined) at all. I would not be surprised that people were
> > less firm about, for example, what life after death actually entailed.
> > It is interesting that the mainstream Anglican tradition (to which I
> > belong) has long had a kind of approach which says that "here is what
> > the church holds to be true" but then generally lets lay practitioners
> > a fair degree of freedom in their actual private beliefs : a typically
> > English compromise between the Protestant view that religion is a
> > matter of personal conscience and the Catholic view about the central
> > importance of tradition.
> > > A person is not a Christian simply because they refer to themselves
> > > as, or because they go to church, or follow mere religious traditions and
> > > observances.
> > Obviously. The "mere" word is a putdown though. (A bit like calling
> > religion "mere" myth etc. as many are want to do.)
> > There is a lot to be said for traditions and observances - especially
> > when people know what it is they are doing and why and as part of an
> > historical spiritual community. But even when they don't they can
> > sometimes be useful anyway. For example, their are many atheists who
> > self-consciously style themselves as cultural jews and f
