August 8 I bought a used 2003 Ford Focus from a Cadillac dealer. The
car looked like a perfect fit for me and my wife, a good 3 months later
of which it spent 2 months in repairs, I have finally had it with this
car and the dealer.

Not only is the car a total lemon, the dealer doesn't care about me not
having a car most of this time, having to rent (and pay for) rental
cars. The dealer and the service center make a habbit of not calling me
back, not keeping me informed even after they have the car for weeks in
a row.

Add to that that this car has been in an accident, while they sold it
to me as being a 'perfect trouble free car, supplied the clean CARFAX
report, never been in an accident, you will love this car it will never
give you trouble... yada yada'. Etc. An accident severe enough to crack
the engine cover, damage the firewall and cause trouble and leakage to
the front window.
All these damages and problems should reasonably have been discovered
by the dealer. Heck, I found out there was trouble with this car within
one day. At best they were 'neglicent'. At worst they need a damn good
lawyer.

The whole story below. It is long, the above is the short executive
summary, but you can read it for your education and/or entertainment
how buying a car at (what you think is) a reputable dealership is no
guarantee whatsoever of quality, service or customer satisfaction. Out
of respect for the employee's privacy, some names are altered.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------
Sat August 5
My wife and I visit the car dealer after finding the advertisement for
it on the web. It looks a good match, only 3 years old and 33.000
miles, and it looks and sounds like a trouble free car we both want.

We arrive not long after noon. We speak to a sales man, John, and he
says the car is 'somewhere else' and we have to come back at 4. We
arrive at 4, and then we have to wait and wait and wait. Finally, after
5, the car arrives. In the meanwhile, another couple has arrived who
also want to look at the car. My wife and I say to each other "we
were first, tough luck"
We look at the car, and it looks good. My wife really likes it. Plus,
we are at an official Cadillac/GM dealer, so what can be wrong? John
says that the car is in perfect condition, single owner, clean CARFAX
record, etc. He says we will love this car, and it won't give any
trouble for miles and miles to come. I ask for a test drive after
making initial agreements. John says that that is not possible because
it is by now after 5PM, and insurance will not cover for it. But I can
make a small circle around the parking lot if I want. I feel silly
making a short slow circle on the parking lot, but I don't suspect
any trouble. The dealer is about to close, and we talk about the car
with the used car sales manager Steve and John. We feel confident
buying the car from an official GM dealer, and agree to buy the car as
we fear it might be gone else. Or more to the point, that is what Steve
and John convince us.

Tue August 8.
I pick up the car together with my wife in the afternoon. Bruce Katzman
handles the sales. He tries to sell me a 3 year extended Ford warranty
and I decline as I don't feel I need it. He tries to push me into it
over and over again. Finally, he offers me a discounted 1 year extended
warranty and he eventually he persuades me to buy it.
I only get one key. John says the other key is not available.
After getting in the car, I notice that the side mirrors don't work.
As the dealer ship closed after we left, I decide they are set good
enough to use them in their current position, and to revisit the dealer
the next day. After driving for a few minutes, I notice a grinding and
rattling kind of noise when accelerating. On the up-ramp to the
highway, this effect has become worse, and along with the sound, the
engine would shudder a bit, hesitate and feel as if misfiring.
On the highway, speeding up to around 50Mph, the steering wheel started
to vibrate strongly indicating a very bad balanced tire / wheel or some
other suspension / wheel related issue.
I tried the speed control, but it doesn't work. No indicator light or
anything comes up. It's 100% dead. When parking the car at home at
dawn, I notice the interior lights don't come on when I open the
door. Using the switches inside the car didn't work as well.

Wed August 9.
John forgot to charge us for the plates, so he called, and I said I
would drop by as I was planning on doing so anyway because of the
problems. On my way to the dealership, after giving the engine enough
time to come to temperature, I try a kick down applying full throttle.
The grinding noise and shudder are quite severe.
When I arrive at the dealership, John is not to be found, but I am
directed to Bruce, and he tells me to drop of the car on Monday as he
has no mechanic available at the moment. I pay for the plates and leave
the car on their parking lot as I have to get back into Manhattan, and
pick up the car early in the evening.
After parking the car at home, I try to find out how to turn on the
high beam as the normal method (pushing the indicator lever back)
doesn't work. Reading the manual I find that that is the way to do
it, but the lever simply won't budge. The flash function works when
pulling the lever towards the steering wheel, pushing it backwards
towards the dashboard doesn't work. I decide not to force it and add
it to the list.

Sat August 12 / Sun August 13
The wife and I take a trip to Catskill and surroundings. On the hilly
roads, the grinding noise and shudder are very prominent. Going uphill
and needing to apply more throttle almost feels painful, and I fear
something is seriously wrong. The shaking of the steering wheel
prevents me from driving much faster than 50Mph on the highway as at
higher speeds the shaking is often so severe that I fear something
might break or that I might lose control or blow a tire. Sometimes the
shaking almost fades away only to return after a short while. As this
happens without reason, driving in a straight line, no weight shift
left or right, curbs or change in elevation, I am unable to find logic
behind these shorter moments of shake-free driving.
Sometimes the automatic transmission doesn't seem to want to shift
up. Driving away from traffic lights, it sometimes seems like it
decides to stick to the lower gear, and only when I lift my foot of the
throttle almost completely does it more violently jump into the next
gear.

Mon August 14
I bring the car to dealer at 8:30AM. As I park the car, John and Steve
(?) are already rushing out of the door. I guess they don't want me
complaining inside earshot of potential car buyers. On the parking lot,
Steve glances over my list of issues, says 'oh, just a fuse' trying
to make it sound less bad. He then tells me to bring the car to MIC
tire services, to ask for Hank and tell Hank that 'Steve sent me'.
I hand Hank the keys and the list of issues, and leave him my cell
phone #. Hank tells me he will call me, but at the end of the day, he
hasn't called me.

Fri August 18
The car is still not ready. MIC is waiting for 'a part'. I have to
rent a car for the weekend.

Fri August 25
The car is ready.  I ask for a repair bill but don't get one. Hank
says that I don't need one.
- Vibration fixed.
- Interior lights fixed.
- High beam selector fixed.
- Window strip fixed.
- Cruise control fixed (although indicator light on dashboard does not
work most times)
- Rattling noise and bad engine performance NOT fixed.
- Left electric mirror works, right mirror NOT fixed as it goes left,
right and down, but not up.
- Head lights NOT adjusted / fixed.

Mon Aug 28
After the wife and I drove in the rain over the weekend, I notice a wet
spot on the passenger side. Also, the screen wipers malfunction (pulse
function leaves wipers halfway on the window). I return the car to MIC.

Fri Sept 1
I get the car back from MIC. New right mirror, wipers operate
correctly. MIC says it can't fix the leak, and it is not 'part of
the deal' (?), I have to go back to the dealer. Also states that the
car 'runs fine' which it totally doesn't.

Mon Sept 4 - Fri Sept 8
Try to reach Andy, General Manager. He is unreachable. I leave various
voice messages but he never calls me back.

Sat Sept 9
I drive to the dealership so I can talk to someone in person. I run
into Steve. He tells me to bring the car to the Cadillac service center
on Monday and tell them he sent me. I get the feeling he wants me out
of the dealership as soon as possible.

Sun Sept 10
I notice the plastic strip covering the bottom of the front window on
the outside is loose on the left side. I add it to the list for next
Monday.

Mon Sept 11
I bring the car to the Cadillac Service center and talk with Paul, a
service manager. Paul says the engine noise and bad pickup could be
transmission trouble, and that it might take a week to fix.

Wed Sept 13 - Fri Sept 15
I call Paul a couple of times. He says they are 'working on the
car'.

Sat Sept 16
Car is not ready, so I have to rent a car for the weekend.

Tue Sept 19
I call Paul. He says there is a problem with the transmission, and as
this is Ford warranty, it has to go to the Ford repair shop. That might
take a week, but should be ready next week.

Mon Sept 25
Again call Paul for the upteempth time, the car is still not ready.

Thu Sept 28
I make another one of many calls to Paul. Paul says the car is ready,
and I could pick it up most likely tomorrow.

Fri Sept 29
I call Paul. He says the car may be ready at the end of the day. I call
him again at the end of the day (he still doesn't call me back). The
car is not available.

Sat Sept 30
Have to rent a car for the weekend.

Mon Oct 2
Just one of those days I call Paul, and the car is still not ready.

Wed Oct 4
Paul says car might be ready tomorrow.

Thu Oct 5
The car is not ready. When I call, Paul says the car is likely ready ...

read more »

news:1163961585.747709.65130@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
<snip>

I hope you saved all the paperwork. Just lemon law the car. NY State is
pretty good on the lemon law. The dealer will offer to buy it back from you
at wholesale. The only way is to get all your money back. Tell the dealer
not only are you lemon lawing the car, you're suing for all the rentals.

I saved all the paperwork I got. Invoice, warranty letters, notes, etc.
The MIC service center didn't want to give me a repair bill. I think I
was kinda lucky the Ford service center left a consumer copy in the car
which I found, as by now I doubt the Cadillac Service Center will/would
ever sent me one.

I expect Andy to make me a real good offer (at least purcjase price,
paid fees and some compensation for 3 months of trouble, misery and
having to rent cars) if he wants to settle this. I am >< close to
getting a lawyer involved. I know the last the dealer wants is having
to purchase under lemon law as that will make the car near impossible
to sell, and a write off to the auctions, so anything below the
original purchase price will make me utter the words 'lawyer, lemon
law'.

Rental fees are not covered under NY lemon law. However, in this case,
it's not only a lemon, but I think the dealer acted neglicent, and I
suspect (of course I don't know for sure), they were well aware of this
being a problem car. They are either extremely incompetent, or they
knowingly and willingly sold me a lemon. They can make their
pick/defense, but after being very patient, possitive (imagine!) and
cooperative for 3 months, my patience and goodwill has ran out. The
only thing that I want now is lose the car and get a full refund. And I
wouldn't mind if it hurt the dealer a bit in the process. Oh, and an
apology would be nice too. ;)

In article <1163961585.747709.65...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>,

<snip>

Holy crap, is there *anything* you didn't do wrong in this transaction?

* You believed a dealership wouldn't screw you. "What can go wrong?" you
said. I thought you were kidding. You weren't.

* You allowed a used car salesman-- a USED CAR SALESMAN, for
chrissakes-- to pressure you into buying a car-- a FORD FOCUS, no less--
that you had not thoroughly test driven.

* signed a contract to buy a car without having an independent mechanic
check it out for you

What have you learned about buying a used car from this experience?

* Make dealerships pay YOU for taking the junk off their lot

* You will get more honesty, a more reliable vehicle, and a fairer price
from private owners than you will EVER get from dealerships. Most times,
a private party doesn't need to sell the car to you to put food on the
table. A dealership does. Always.

Also, a private party rarely has a large selection of crap to sell you.

* Putting your trust in ANYONE who is trying to sell you something is a
very, very bad idea. This principle is especially true of strangers like
"Honest John", your GM stealership salesman, but it extends right out to
close friends and family members too.

* Do all your friends and family a big favor: tell them exactly what
this dealership put you through, whether or not you get your money back
(which I suspect you will not).

Hey, GM and UAW: you want to know why people don't buy your products?
Look no further than the crooks you use to sell them.

--
Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo.

Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure. 

Actually people DO buy their products.  Mostly stupid people
who believe buying vastly inferior American cars is somehow
patriotic.  More like idiotic.

Did you know 96% of the parts that go into a Toyota Camry
are produced in the U.S.?  For a Ford Focus the percentage
is 28%.  So you can better support American companies and
workers by buying a Japanese car.

In article <_638h.8384$6t.6...@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>,

I would rather support myself by buying used from a private seller. This
strategy has worked wonderfully for me for my entire driving life.

I have watched friends and family and neighbors get screwed so often by
dealerships that I would NEVER buy a car off a lot. In the late
seventies, a friend once worked as a salesman, and at his dealership
(Dodge/Chrysler/Plymouth), all the good used trade-ins went to the
staff's friends and family at discount. It was a rare and lucky customer
who got a good used car.

Junk they accepted as trade-in was sold to customers like the OP at HUGE
markups to subsidize the below-cost price for the favored customers.

Thank God that guy was there to warn me off buying a new Chrysler
Cordoba.

--
Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo.

Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure. 

On Nov 19, 3:11 pm, bearc...@cruller.invalid wrote:
There was some irony to that. With 20-20 hindsight, I might have stayed
out of this. I did check the CARFAX for the car before I went which
came up clean, single owner. At some point you take a calculated risk,
and in that, you make assumptions on the reputation of party you are
dealing with. One aspect was 3 months of warranty because of the lower
mileage of the car. I wasn't expecting a major Cadillac dealership too
sell me a salvage / lemon car.
Blame it on me being Dutch, we do screw over people now and then,
dealers not excluded, but this would rarely ever happen at a major
brand dealership in my country, Of all the cars (both new and used) in
Holland, I have never been treated so bad and with so much disregard as
here in the US.

Oh well, you live and learn. I can only hope some people will benefit
from my story.

With all dealerships I visited before this one, about half of them
would eventually consider me taking a test drive. One made it as
poignant as telling "You can make a test drive if you promise me you
will buy it if you find nothing wrong with it." Common excuses were
that it was too awkward to get it out of the lot, no insurance, etc.
Sure, walk out of all those.

Funny thing that, but I had a few cars I liked before I landed on this
one, smaller used car dealers, the ones I would suspect to be more
'sharky' than a major brand new car dealership, and all of them refused
me to take it to an inspection of my choice. "Well, don't buy it then".

One thing is that this dealer is a new car dealership. I expect the
cars they sell to be trade-ins. In general (or as it works in my
country, maybe that differs here), a dealer trades in your old car to
secure the deal for the new car where he makes the biggest commission
and money. The traded in car is inspected and judged as worthy for
resale, or send of to the used car market if the dealer doesn't want
his name connected to it, doesn't trust it or thinks it's too old and
shabby to put on display. Ignorant? Perhaps.

Then again, even an independent car inspection will not guarantee you a
trouble free car.

Then again, a private sale is always "as is". In this case, I am to a
certain extent protected by law and mandatory warranty. Under the Lemon
Law, I am entitled to a full refund including fees, plates and taxes. I
actually checked out these conditions when I started shopping for a
car. I wouldn't expect any dealer to take such risk.

I'm not sure of the Used Cars Sales manager 'leaving' might indicate
that even for the owner of the dealership, things have finally gone too
far, or that there are issues of deceptive and fraudulent practices
going on.

No, but they could have a small selection of large crap. :D

True. Not being philosophical, but what ever happened to trust and good
business practices?

I will. The raison d'etre of this usenet posting as well. :)

True. Many people wonder why American car sales are down this much.
It's not only the fact that American cars are crappier than Japanese
and European cars. It's also the fact how they treat you the moment you
do run into trouble with some of the crap they make/sell. Time and time
again, it has been proven that proper customer care can make up for a
lot crap sales. A consumer does expect that now and then, things go
wrong with items they purchase. But they also expect that they will be
helped promptly and swiftly whenever such happens to them in a "no
questions asked" way.
Maybe some day, the big car manufacturers might wake up and realize
their problems are not just what rolls off the assembly lines....

It would also be nice if you would offer some constructive advice and
comments. I know I an like all the other good-faithed people who got
swindled, I don't need the usenet to know that I could have been a
gazillion times more prudent, and while I don't mind the "how stupid
are you?" comments, I don't think it needs to be hammered in or helps
me out in any way. :)

New York has very good Lemon Laws:
http://www.oag.state.ny.us/consumer/cars/usedcarlemon.html

In article <1163970064.135486.18...@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,

Finally, good advice from a used car salesman.

Personally, if a seller ever said that to me, I would immediately take
it on its face and leave. Just so you know, there is a concept in auto
sales called something like "lot borders". The salespeople ridicule or
ignore you. This puts *them* in control of the sale. Marks like you
believe their BS and hang in there, practically begging  to be at their
mercy. To be prey. At that point, they know they've got you and your
money. YOU have made their sale. YOU did all their work for them. All
they have to do is show you where to sign.

I don't understand it. What's so frigging great about *that* car? There
must be a zillion Ford Focus owners who would LOVE to get whatever you
spent on that car. And who would probably accept considerably less.

Those like me who turn around and walk away very often get called back
by another salesman-- one with a more compliant attitude. People who
allow these bastards to control the sale make life much harder on people
like me. That is the key: be willing, even enthusiastic, about walking
away from any ulcer-packing predator who is unwilling to kneel down and
tongue-kiss your ass for your money, and to smile pretty while he's
doing it. Screw his pride, this is business.

Short of that, YOU are serving him, not the other way around. Is that
what their ads say: "Come on in and serve us!" No. They ask to be
allowed to serve YOU.

I deal with private party vehicle sales pretty much the same way I deal
with used car salesmen, although I treat individuals more respectfully.
But if they refuse to let me drive it or won't allow me to examine the
car using my own mechanic, the deal's off (notably, this has NEVER
happened). There is always another deal right around the corner.

Fair is fair, but I worked 'way too hard to voluntarily feed anyone who
would steal from me. And I don't need to spend my money on their junkers
when there are so many alternatives available.
<snip>

Sorry, it is just SO common for trusting people to get taken by used car
salesmen, it has become a worn-out cliche. In my experience, it is
mostly younger people who get taken. But not always. It is always
galling.

The best advice *anyone* can offer to someone buying a used vehicle is
this: YOU stay in control. Never, ever let the salesman control the
conditions nor even the price of the sale. Unless those two items meet
with your wholehearted, fully aware, knowledgeable approval, do not
complete the transaction. Always remember that it is YOUR money. If the
sale doesn't meet YOUR conditions, then there is no sale.

Let me ask you this: did you give John the full price he asked for that
car? If he discounted it, did HE offer to, or did YOU request him to?

Good luck on getting your money back. I sincerely mean that; but I have
watched too many people who tried and failed. It is the main reason that
I react the way I do to stories like yours.

--
Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo.

Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure. 

news:jbi1m2tfod1ms6a8s6701iu0krvcpoqv09@4ax.com...

Yes, the lemon law is applicable. And the dealer will take the car back on
the Lemon Law and run it through auctions in several states till the papers
do not show lemon law on them. Just let  the dealer know you have all the
backup papers on the car with all the repairs and dates.

In article <1163961585.747709.65...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>,
Marty.R...@gmail.com says...

2003 bought used in 2006?  Bet that's too old for Lemon Law coverage,
even if you're in a state that has used-car lemon laws.  Know what its
original delivery date was?

--
j...@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Braze your own bicycle frames.  See
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html>

It is too old for New Car Lemon Law which is 18000 miles or 2 years.
Used Car Lemon Law is for any car with less than 100.000 miles and
$1.500 or more sold by a car dealer. See the link earlier in this
thread. My car with less than 36.000 miles has by law a minimum
warranty of 90 days. Days where the car is in repair don't count, so in
my case I have only used up around 30 days of my warranty....

Not according to
http://autopedia.com/html/LemonLaw/NewYork_NY_lemonlaw3.html

* 2. "Used motor vehicle" means a motor vehicle, excluding motor homes
and off-road vehicles, which has been purchased, leased, or
transferred either after eighteen thousand miles of operation or two
years from the date of original delivery, whichever is earlier;
* NB Effective September 1, 2004

Park the car as close to the dealership as possible, with a big "LEMON BOUGHT
HERE" sign in the window for everyone driving by to see.  Newspapers might
also be interested in the story.  Have any investigative troubleshooters at
the local TV stations?  They love stuff like this.  The dealer might
eventually give you your money back, but if they can also lose a deal or two
because of the bad publicity, well that's the breaks...

 b> Holy crap, is there *anything* you didn't do wrong in this transaction?

<a list follows>

also:

* trusting the dealer's word that the car had clean carfax record. You did
not check it yourself, or at least ask to show it to you, did you.

In article <1163961585.747709.65...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>,

No need to read any further. Take this as a lesson to never buy a used
car without having it inspected first by a mechanic you trust. A car
with that much damage would have surely been flagged by a mechanic if
you had bothered to have it inspected before you bought it.

On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:44:41 -0500, Shawn Hirn <s...@comcast.net>
graced this newsgroup with:

..and get a lawyer.  The dealer committed fraud.

news:srhi-CD1144.19444120112006@comcast.dca.giganews.com...

Well- you are supposing we all have mechanics we trust. Those are a very
rare species around here. Just when I start to think I can trust a place,
they screw me over, or the the guy who worked on my heap before got a better
offer in another town, or the owner decides that line of repairs isn't worth
their bother any more, ad nauseum.

aem sends...

Another reason why an AAA membership beats the hell out of all the
other "road service" options.

On Nov 20, 10:56 am, "bat" <b...@bats.com> wrote:
Actually, I did before I went there (and on every car I visited
before), and the dealer gave me a copy of the same CARFAX report to
prove the clean history of the car. Forking out a few bucks for CARFAX
should be worth its money, but then again, this story is a clear QED
that it guarantees not that much. I see people want to hammer it in how
stupid I am, and sure, I guess I was too gullible or trusting. Call it
a cultural difference.

But yes, I did check it on CARFAX before I went, and the CARFAX report
looked as clean as they come. No incidents, 1st owner, etc. So much for
a CARFAX report, nothing new there.

On Nov 20, 7:49 pm, amsta...@home.com wrote:

That's my main beef. I already contacted the NY State Attorney (lucky
for us with Eliot Spitzer still at the helm, they are very cooperative
with advise and assistance), and this case is certainly worth a
consumer fraud case.
refund the purchase price including fees and taxes) as my case more
than qualifies, and in addition start legal proceedings for the
consumer fraud part to claim additional expenses (mainly rental costs)
and compensations. The logical route would be small court. A lawyer I
consulted told me that my chances are pretty good, and a willing
judgecould easily hammer punitive damages.

In art. <1164083142.792132.18...@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Marty wrote:

  Small claims court for a case this big?  With claim for punitive
damages?

  I don't know what NY state's limit for small claims is, but I am under
the impression (no guarantee) that Pennsylvania's is $5,000.  I am also
under the impression that small claims court judges like to award
judgements of what you can prove you lost - as in actual damages, as in
repurchase of your car, repair bills you had to pay and rentals and any
wages lost from taking time off for car trouble that the defendant caused,
but I doubt punitive or any other non-economic damages.
  On the other hand, small claims court does not require you to have a
lawyer.  If the defendant is a corporation rather than only specific
persons, they have to send in a lawyer or a corporate officer (in
Pennsylvania).  It can be handy to name as defendants all persons who did
anything wrong.  If this happened due to any extent of any business policy
or strategy, think about naming the business as a defendant.  Likely it is
incorporated, so you have to find out the corporation name as well as its
T/A name (maybe fictitious name records).  Just beware that making them
need to drag in a lawyer makes you likely to drag one in to equalize the
firepower.
  On the other other hand, there is common pleas court, where both sides
usually employ lawyers (one who represents himself has a fool for a
client).  Punitive and non-economic damages are easier to claim.  But you
get a hefty legal bill from your lawyer.

  ==========================

  Keep in mind that I have seen some surveys on honesty of occupations,
where new car salesmen rank not far from politicians in the lower portion
of the heap.  Also keep in mind that the sales locations are sometimes
referred to as "stealerships".  Would such folks be any better when buying
a used car from them as opposed to a new one?
  Ever hear the saying "Would you buy a used car from...?"  I think that
experts at selling cars would be at the bottom of the list of who to buy
used cars from!  (Dealerships and whoever sells used taxicabs after they
get worn out enough to not be worth passing around to other taxi
companies/drivers, such as ones in jurisdictions without mileage limits.)  

  ===========================

  I have a friend who lasted a couple weeks at a "stealership".  He tells
me that most of the horror stories of salespeople getting customers to pay
too much one way or another or in many ways are true!  Don't be afraid to
lose a purchase if someone else is willing to pay too much, and be
prepared to have some of your time wasted, and be prepared for p!$$!ng
contests of timewasting tactics of negotiation, and in advance do adequate
research (both on your make/model/year/mileage, actual good prices at
which peo9ple actually buy these at as well as negotiation tactics) so
that you know and can state with confidence a price at which salescritters
will sell them for!

 - Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)

On 20 Nov 2006 20:25:42 -0800, "Marty" <Marty.R...@gmail.com> wrote:

If you consulted a lawyer who told you you could get punitive damages
in small claims court, you bought another lemon.

news:jk35m2h44qc94r9gpvin55m3eee4srpvl4@4ax.com...

Something about this whole story is starting to smell bad.

That was the condensed form. This was a telephone call with a lawyer,
so this was in no sense an 'official' consult, so shoot me if I mix
things up. The most important thing he said is that you seperate the
lemon repurchase and the claims for other expenses such a rentals, lost
time and work and suffering. The other thing is that he suggested
keeping it in small court as while you can have a strong case to drag
the dealer into the mud, the other issues is that in a case involving a
used car, lawyer costs are quickly no longer reasonable compared to the
monetary value / damages of the purchase. The Cadillac dealer will sure
as hell send a lawyer in, and they sure will try to make it as nasty
and expensive for you as possible.

I want to be reasonably compensated for the sumbag actions by this
dealer. I welcome anyone who has advise on how to pursue this.

And for those who don't believe my story to be true, if you will I can
send you the bills, CARFAX report and whatelse not. I am not here to
troll.