I was rereading "The Past Through Tomorrow", the Heinlein collection, which proclaims in the back blurb "For the First Time, all 21 stories, novellas and novels forming Heinlein's monumental Future History are collected together in paperback." I noticed that in "The Man That Sold the Moon", the Soviet Union was still around, although apparently most people no longer consider it a serious threat.
A couple stories further along, in "Space Jockey", the Security Council is apparently maintaining the peace with A-bomb rockets, something one would think the USSR would want to sign off on - but there is no mention of the USSR in this story, nor in any other story after TMTSTM, and I have read up to "If This Goes On -".
In other story universes, the USSR is assimilated by China, wiped out in war, or overrun with space parasites and then hit by plague, and apparently had a big part in the founding of the lunar colonies in "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress". However, the USSR "softly and silently vanishes away" in "The Past Through Tomorrow." Is there any indication in any of the stories linked with the "Future History" series that indicates what happened to it? Destroyed by the Chinese? Dwindled into insignificance?
> I was rereading "The Past Through Tomorrow", the Heinlein collection, > which proclaims in the back blurb "For the First Time, all 21 stories, > novellas and novels forming Heinlein's monumental Future History are > collected together in paperback." I noticed that in "The Man That Sold > the Moon", the Soviet Union was still around, although apparently most > people no longer consider it a serious threat.
> A couple stories further along, in "Space Jockey", the Security > Council is apparently maintaining the peace with A-bomb rockets, > something one would think the USSR would want to sign off on - but > there is no mention of the USSR in this story, nor in any other story > after TMTSTM, and I have read up to "If This Goes On -".
> In other story universes, the USSR is assimilated by China, wiped out > in war, or overrun with space parasites and then hit by plague, and > apparently had a big part in the founding of the lunar colonies in > "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress". However, the USSR "softly and silently > vanishes away" in "The Past Through Tomorrow." Is there any indication > in any of the stories linked with the "Future History" series that > indicates what happened to it? Destroyed by the Chinese? Dwindled into > insignificance?
> Bruce
"A petty consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds". Heed the Waldo.
I doubt Heinlein had a future mapped out that was coherent down to minor details like who the extant superpowers might be. It appears to me that it was retrofitted onto the Great Man's oeuvre, by himself and others, and the sloppy welds show.
> I was rereading "The Past Through Tomorrow", the Heinlein > collection, which proclaims in the back blurb "For the First > Time, all 21 stories, novellas and novels forming Heinlein's > monumental Future History are collected together in paperback." > I noticed that in "The Man That Sold the Moon", the Soviet Union > was still around, although apparently most people no longer > consider it a serious threat.
> A couple stories further along, in "Space Jockey", the Security > Council is apparently maintaining the peace with A-bomb rockets, > something one would think the USSR would want to sign off on - > but there is no mention of the USSR in this story, nor in any > other story after TMTSTM, and I have read up to "If This Goes On > -".
> In other story universes, the USSR is assimilated by China, > wiped out in war, or overrun with space parasites and then hit > by plague, and apparently had a big part in the founding of the > lunar colonies in "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress". However, the > USSR "softly and silently vanishes away" in "The Past Through > Tomorrow." Is there any indication in any of the stories linked > with the "Future History" series that indicates what happened to > it? Destroyed by the Chinese? Dwindled into insignificance?
In _Time Enough for Love_, there's a passing reference to "the destruction of Europe". It's not entirely clear where this would fit in. Europe seems to be functional as of _If This Goes On_, which establishes the Covenant, which becomes a reasonably well- regarded world government until _Methuselah's Children_. But a likely cause of such destruction would be a war with the USSR, which could in principle have left both to be absorbed by the America-based Covenant.
> In _Time Enough for Love_, there's a passing reference to "the > destruction of Europe". It's not entirely clear where this would > fit in. Europe seems to be functional as of _If This Goes On_,
Actually, the point is unclear. Britain is apparently still functioning (" although Canada had recognised us, Great Britain had not - -"), but there is no mention of anywhere on the Continent. See below.
> which establishes the Covenant, which becomes a reasonably well- > regarded world government until _Methuselah's Children_.
By MC (as indeed by "Coventry") Europe has been destroyed, but again Britain is still there. One idea that Slayton Ford muses about is to evacuate the British Isles, settle the Howard families there, and "let them expand into Europe as the radioactivity died down". The Destruction of Europe evidently somehow missed Britain.
But a
> likely cause of such destruction would be a war with the USSR, > which could in principle have left both to be absorbed by the > America-based Covenant.
In "Coventry" we are told of "mass psychoses which destroyed Europe and sent the United States back into the Dark Ages", implying that both events happened at approx the same time, ie c2012. No hint of who did it, though.
Istr that in one of the later works we are told in a throwaway line that "China destroyed Europe" but with no explanation of what led to it. --
Mike Stone - Peterborough, England
Q) In the Roman Civil Wars, why did all the bachelors fight for Sulla?
> On Aug 26, 11:50 pm, bm2...@eve.albany.edu wrote:
> > Greetings and salutations.
> > I was rereading "The Past Through Tomorrow", the Heinlein collection, > > which proclaims in the back blurb "For the First Time, all 21 stories, > > novellas and novels forming Heinlein's monumental Future History are > > collected together in paperback." I noticed that in "The Man That Sold > > the Moon", the Soviet Union was still around, although apparently most > > people no longer consider it a serious threat.
> > A couple stories further along, in "Space Jockey", the Security > > Council is apparently maintaining the peace with A-bomb rockets, > > something one would think the USSR would want to sign off on - but > > there is no mention of the USSR in this story, nor in any other story > > after TMTSTM, and I have read up to "If This Goes On -".
> > In other story universes, the USSR is assimilated by China, wiped out > > in war, or overrun with space parasites and then hit by plague, and > > apparently had a big part in the founding of the lunar colonies in > > "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress". However, the USSR "softly and silently > > vanishes away" in "The Past Through Tomorrow." Is there any indication > > in any of the stories linked with the "Future History" series that > > indicates what happened to it? Destroyed by the Chinese? Dwindled into > > insignificance?
> > Bruce
> "A petty consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds". Heed the Waldo.
> I doubt Heinlein had a future mapped out that was coherent down to > minor details like who the extant superpowers might be. It appears to > me that it was retrofitted onto the Great Man's oeuvre, by himself and > others, and the sloppy welds show.- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Pretty likely. When "Space Jockey" was written the USSR was not The Enemy; by the time "The Man Who Sold the Moon" was written, it was -- but in 1945 and 1946 Heinlein was saying it was unlikely the USSR would be a big problem for the US -- and it's quite true, it took some amazingly boneheaded foreign policy on the part of the Truman and Eisenhower administrations to make the Cold War turn out the way it did.
We tend to forget that mch of the stuff we're familiar with, having lived with it for so long, is low-probability. In 1925 no one could have imagined a petroleum-dependent economy of the U.S.; it took conscious policy commitments, a degree of venal insanity, plus wholesale rape of the public treasury over a fifty-year period to make it turn out that way.
>In "Coventry" we are told of "mass psychoses which destroyed Europe and sent >the United States back into the Dark Ages", implying that both events >happened at approx the same time, ie c2012. No hint of who did it, though.
I assume the US event was Rev. Nehemiah Scudder (elected 2012), no?
Bill Patterson <WHPatter...@gmail.com> wrote: >We tend to forget that mch of the stuff we're familiar with, having >lived with it for so long, is low-probability. In 1925 no one could >have imagined a petroleum-dependent economy of the U.S.; it took >conscious policy commitments, a degree of venal insanity, plus >wholesale rape of the public treasury over a fifty-year period to make >it turn out that way.
*puzzled*
The whole world runs on fossil fuels, especially the easy to use high-density liquid ones we were able to suck out of the ground practically for free. Or do you mean the degree to which urban streetcars were torn up and interstate highways were laid down, coupled with suburban expansion, so that the US is more car and oil dependent than other countries? That part's true enough, but it's kind of a matter of degree, I think.
Bill Patterson wrote: > On Aug 26, 10:47?pm, pedrod...@snip.net wrote: >> On Aug 26, 11:50?pm, bm2...@eve.albany.edu wrote:
>>> Greetings and salutations.
>>> I was rereading ?"The Past Through Tomorrow", the Heinlein >>> collection, which proclaims in the back blurb "For the First Time, >>> all 21 stories, novellas and novels forming Heinlein's monumental >>> Future History are collected together in paperback." I noticed that >>> in "The Man That Sold the Moon", the Soviet Union was still around, >>> although apparently most people no longer consider it a serious >>> threat.
>>> A couple stories further along, in "Space Jockey", the Security >>> Council is apparently maintaining the peace with A-bomb rockets, >>> something one would think the USSR would want to sign off on - but >>> there is no mention of the USSR in this story, nor in any other >>> story after TMTSTM, and I have read up to "If This Goes On -".
>>> In other story universes, the USSR is assimilated by China, wiped >>> out in war, or overrun with space parasites and then hit by plague, >>> and apparently had a big part in the founding of the lunar colonies >>> in "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress". However, the USSR "softly and >>> silently vanishes away" in "The Past Through Tomorrow." Is there >>> any indication in any of the stories linked with the "Future >>> History" series that indicates what happened to it? Destroyed by >>> the Chinese? Dwindled into insignificance?
>>> Bruce
>> "A petty consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds". Heed the >> Waldo.
>> I doubt Heinlein had a future mapped out that was coherent down to >> minor details like who the extant superpowers might be. It appears to >> me that it was retrofitted onto the Great Man's oeuvre, by himself >> and others, and the sloppy welds show.- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
> Pretty likely. When "Space Jockey" was written the USSR was not The > Enemy; by the time "The Man Who Sold the Moon" was written, it was -- > but in 1945 and 1946 Heinlein was saying it was unlikely the USSR > would be a big problem for the US -- and it's quite true, it took some > amazingly boneheaded foreign policy on the part of the Truman and > Eisenhower administrations to make the Cold War turn out the way it > did.
On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:37:21 -0700, "Mike Schilling"
<mscottschill...@hotmail.com> wrote: >Bill Patterson wrote: >> Pretty likely. When "Space Jockey" was written the USSR was not The >> Enemy; by the time "The Man Who Sold the Moon" was written, it was -- >> but in 1945 and 1946 Heinlein was saying it was unlikely the USSR >> would be a big problem for the US -- and it's quite true, it took some >> amazingly boneheaded foreign policy on the part of the Truman and >> Eisenhower administrations to make the Cold War turn out the way it >> did.
>The U.S. winning, you mean?
Not immolating itself in order to clear the decks for the Marxist triumph? I've seen some pretty risible rationalizations out of the Heinlein fan club lately, but the notion that Uncle Joe would've been a good citizen if only we hadn't ticked him off -- the mind really boggles.
-- Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank]
Bill Patterson <WHPatter...@gmail.com> wrote: >Pretty likely. When "Space Jockey" was written the USSR was not The >Enemy; by the time "The Man Who Sold the Moon" was written, it was -- >but in 1945 and 1946 Heinlein was saying it was unlikely the USSR >would be a big problem for the US -- and it's quite true, it took some >amazingly boneheaded foreign policy on the part of the Truman and >Eisenhower administrations to make the Cold War turn out the way it >did.
Other than the fact the confrontations were already happening in 1945 and 1946... Sure.
>We tend to forget that mch of the stuff we're familiar with, having >lived with it for so long, is low-probability. In 1925 no one could >have imagined a petroleum-dependent economy of the U.S.
Yeah, they'd have probably predicted a future in which we were dependent on Big Coal, Big Steel, and Big Railroads.
Bill Patterson wrote: > On Aug 26, 10:47 pm, pedrod...@snip.net wrote:
>>On Aug 26, 11:50 pm, bm2...@eve.albany.edu wrote:
>>>Greetings and salutations.
>>>I was rereading "The Past Through Tomorrow", the Heinlein collection, >>>which proclaims in the back blurb "For the First Time, all 21 stories, >>>novellas and novels forming Heinlein's monumental Future History are >>>collected together in paperback." I noticed that in "The Man That Sold >>>the Moon", the Soviet Union was still around, although apparently most >>>people no longer consider it a serious threat.
>>>A couple stories further along, in "Space Jockey", the Security >>>Council is apparently maintaining the peace with A-bomb rockets, >>>something one would think the USSR would want to sign off on - but >>>there is no mention of the USSR in this story, nor in any other story >>>after TMTSTM, and I have read up to "If This Goes On -".
>>>In other story universes, the USSR is assimilated by China, wiped out >>>in war, or overrun with space parasites and then hit by plague, and >>>apparently had a big part in the founding of the lunar colonies in >>>"The Moon is a Harsh Mistress". However, the USSR "softly and silently >>>vanishes away" in "The Past Through Tomorrow." Is there any indication >>>in any of the stories linked with the "Future History" series that >>>indicates what happened to it? Destroyed by the Chinese? Dwindled into >>>insignificance?
>>>Bruce
>>"A petty consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds". Heed the Waldo.
>>I doubt Heinlein had a future mapped out that was coherent down to >>minor details like who the extant superpowers might be. It appears to >>me that it was retrofitted onto the Great Man's oeuvre, by himself and >>others, and the sloppy welds show.- Hide quoted text -
>>- Show quoted text -
> Pretty likely. When "Space Jockey" was written the USSR was not The > Enemy; by the time "The Man Who Sold the Moon" was written, it was -- > but in 1945 and 1946 Heinlein was saying it was unlikely the USSR > would be a big problem for the US -- and it's quite true, it took some > amazingly boneheaded foreign policy on the part of the Truman and > Eisenhower administrations to make the Cold War turn out the way it > did.
> We tend to forget that mch of the stuff we're familiar with, having > lived with it for so long, is low-probability. In 1925 no one could > have imagined a petroleum-dependent economy of the U.S.; it took > conscious policy commitments, a degree of venal insanity, plus > wholesale rape of the public treasury over a fifty-year period to make > it turn out that way.
So nobody really wanted the freedom of using their own car rather than <
